Respond to each question fully and then respond to two of your peers posts for a total of 8 posts.
- What comparison does the author make about the female and male responses to her unwilling participation in the "ledge party?"
- If you had to choose which side is more "right" than the other?
- What is the author's reason for not reporting this crime either to the police or her school authorities?
- Would treating the incident as a crime have been helpful in healing the pain she experienced as a victim?
- How might reporting the incident have impacted her situation as someone who was ostracized in the sorority and on campus? How does the author's self-image change in the wake of this incident?
- Why does the author choose to avoid the word "rape" in her essay? How might it affect her essay and you the reader if she chose to include it in her writing? How has this incident impacted the author's life? (Hint: You may find it useful to research the terms "date rape" or "acquaintance rape" in order to get a more rounded perspective on the topic.)
80 comments:
The comparison the author made about the ledge party is that none of it was right, even though some of the brothers from the fraternity stopped what was actually going on. She even recicved an apology from the main guy.As for her sisters all they did was talk behind her back and make a fool out of her.No one tried to help the situation they kicked her out of the house and embarassed her through college.
the author makes two different comparisons about the ledge party. she speaks about how on the male side they did do wrong but the reprocusion to the male. he appologised and was kickd out of his chapeter because he dishonored his brothers. it still doesnt justify his actions or any of the other brothers actions because it is technically date rape.
from the womens side her sisters were extremely hard on her, it obiously wasnt her fault and what made is worse was that gossiped about her and as sisters they were supposed to help her threw it yet all they did do was kick her out of her chapter.
If i had to choose what side is right i would say neither. Everyone knew what was going on and nobody interfered to stop it from the begining. I would say it took the guy alot of courage to come back to actually apologize for what happend but that still wouldnt make it right. Her sisters outcasted her yet they are the ones who are suppose to be there for her. So i would say no one is right in this situation.
picking a side in this situation is hard because both ends were completely wrong..her sisters should have defeneded her thats what a sisterhood is all about, and the boys should have never touched her nor any of the other sisters. if i had to pick a side that handeled the situation better i would have to say the brothers because atleast they used that situation as a learning experience, kicked that brother out of the chapter, and appologized to her for what happened.
The comparison that the author made about the male and female responses were that what occured was wrong and inappropriate and that the guy was disloyal to his brothers. They did not talk about the situation but, simply reacted to his inappropriate behavior. He was kicked out. The females handled the situation differently. They criticized, judged, and gossiped about how Kelly brought shame upon them all.
She believed it was her fault also because she did drink and loss controll, she is known as a person who is responcible yet she she allowed herself to lose control so she believes is partialy her fault also.
There was no talk about any of this becasue the author felt responsible for what had happend. She felt responsible for getting drunk and loosing control of herself and the situation. And everyone chose to ignore it
The author makes two comparisons based on the "ledge party". the males were wrong for exposing the female, but as for the males they appologized. The females just talk about her behind her back, and have a meeting and decide that shes not a girl they would want to associate with. The girls just made it harder for her through college.
no i dont believe that treating it as a crime would have helped her heal better because either way she is going to scared for life, bringing it to the police or to her school would have made it an even bigger ordeal and than she deffinately would have been looked at differently by her whole school rather than just her sisters.
To treat this as a crime i dont think it wouldve been helpful towards her feelings. It wouldve brought justice yes of course but it couldve also made things alot more painful for her. It probly wouldve made the situation bigger and the attention brought out more,to what was actually going on instead of ingoring it. I think it wouldve hurt her more
The comparison that the author makes about the male and female responses to her unwilling participation is that the males reaction was that the male acknowledge wrongdoing, apologized, and he showed remorse. He did not blame her. The female comparison was that they didnt support her through this crises. They judged her, blamed her and critizied her. The men didnt blame her and the women shouldnt have either, but they did.
The author feels that the males were being compassionate towards her by accepting it was her rapist's fault. The fact that the males kicked her rapist out of the fraternity made her feel that their apology was sincere. She states that even though their actions were cruel, the females actions were worse. She feels betrayed by who she thought were her friends. The way the females reacted to this injustice is interfering with her social life up until this point.
If i had to choose sides i would go with the boys. Yes the boys were wrong but atleast they were kind enough to appologize for what had happend. The girls in the other hand did not make anything easier for her. being in a sisterhood means when one of you are down all of you pick her up, but not in this case. The girls went against her and kicked her out , rather the boys who appologized for their wrongs.
In my opinion neither of the sides are right. Both male and females knew what was taking place and niether decide to react until afterwards. When you join Sororities or Fraternities teh intentions should be positive because its a brotherly or sisterly group. These groups are suppose to help one another not degrade people you call family and later gossip about them or like the males did remove themselves from the situation after knowing what has taking place. When entering Sororities and Fraternities there is a honor code and it should be followed and taking seriously. If you allow immaturity that the results are usually going to resolve in something inappropriate.
If i had to choose which side is more right then the other I would say the men were right. he was more matured about the situation. Instead of critizing her and judging her, the man apologized about it even though he did something wrong.
The author's reason for not reporting this crime to the police or school authorities is because she felt responsible for getting drunk and losing control. They also believed that whatever occured was not serious enough to have to tell someone.
I don't think any of them is right; neither the males nor the females but if i had to pick one I think the guys are. It is not funny to gossip about someone's bussiness behind their back, especially something as serious as this. The fact that the girls blamed her for what happened shows how mean girls can be. You would think that since they are all females that would encourage them to stick together and help each other but they did the opposite.
The comparison Kelly Valen has over females and males are very understandable. You would think her teeth would grind on the thought of men after being malested. But what causes her pain and anguish is the thought of women. Although she was raped, she experinced remorse of the man, and some punishment, he was kicked out of the sorority finally leaving the school. The men were on her side. You would think a woman would understand her fears, her feeling of confusion especially the fact that her virginity was taken away in that form. Instead they became vicoius blaming the situation on her, forceing her to isolate her self from everyone else.
i think it would have made it worse because than everyone would have known about it and that would have treated her differently they woud have felt sorry for her and pitty isnt what helps a person heal.she looks at herself as bein ditiry and she is disgusted with herself and how her sisters treated her.
The authors reason for not going to the police was because no one ever thought of it as a true crime. She felt responsible for getting drunk and losing control.
In my opinion i dont think treating it like a crime would of helped her situation. It would of made the situation seem alot bigger. Everyone would know rather than just her sisters. She wouldnt want the negative exposure. She would of been looked at as not such a respectable person. Even if this situation wasnt treated like a crime she will still feel horible so i think it shouldnt be treated like a crime.
I think her being ostracized and kicked out of the sorority would have a huge impact,if she wouldve brought this to the attention of authorities. I think that now evryone would have found out about what happend at the "ledge Party" and she would have been outcasted regaurdless. And she changed she no longer finds comfort in being around groups of women or men she doesnt trust anyone. Any female group activity she chooses to ignore it.
The comparison about the ledge party was that the males felt remorse about the whole situation and, the guy was kicked out of the fraternity but was apologetic towards his actions, as far as her soroity sisters they pretty much put her through difficult situation by talking about her and gossiping amongst one another and then ultimately kicking her out of the soroity.
i feel she doesnt use the term rape because its such an ugly word she is deeply effected by what has happened to her and to this day she is still effected by it so it seems as if she needs to find some other way to explain what has happened so she cover up her pain
Her reason for not reporting this crime to the authorities was because she blamed herself for it. The fact that she was drinking at 18 is a crime on its own. Since her "sisters" were blaming her for it she started to believe that it was indeed her fault. She claims that she should of never lost her self control and gotten so drunk and provoked this to happen. I think itn also had to do with her reputation, I don't think she wanted more people looking at her as a "slut."
The comparison the author make is how the guy did what he did and afterwards he still apologised. The male from the fraternity even apoligised. They felt that it wasn't something that was cool to do. On the other hand the female sorority responded differently. That made Kelly feel very dirty and had her thinking what had happened was degrading. They would gossip about her behind her back.
Both men and woman were wrong. But just like the author I blame more the women. She was sexually abbused but she had no rememberance of it because she was intoxicated. But what causes her so much pain is the fact that she was a virgin and there was a large crowd watching it happen. Why wouldn't any woman step up to defend her? Your called sisters why would you go against your sister when she needs you the most?
The author didnt report this matter to authorites because it would of made her look bad. Even though she was the victim it still doesnt look good to be in her shoes. Reporting it to the authorites would just take matters out of hand. In my opinion i think she did the right thing as far as not telling authorites. It also would have brought major attention to her and her situation.
The author stated that she trusted neither Male or Female. After drinking too much at a "Ledge Party" she was taken advantage of by one of the Faternity Brothers. While her Sorority Sisters turned on her,and dismissed her form the Sorority.
Treating the incident as a crime would definently be helpful in bringing justice. It would not help heal the pain because when something so serious takes place people are marked for life. Nothing is no longer the same. Meaning your behavior changes, you begin to treat the people around you differently and you spend all your life living in fear. I believe she did not want this type of exposure. It will only bring more attention to her. I do believe she wanted closure of some sort.
I don't beleive that going to the police and treating this as a crime would've made her feel better in anyway because it was her fault at the end of it all. She was legally 18 she had knew the difference between right and wrong. No one forced her to do it. She drank inresponsibly and was alone with a man she didn't even know. She put herself to her own risk. It came down to her losing what was important to keep. Her virginity. She gave up to a man she didn't know and didn't even remember how it happenend. That can never be replaced.
I don't either side was right. If the Sorority sisterhood as it was called was concerned for her well-being they would help Kelly through the healing process instead of gossiping about her. To stand by side regardless, after all she was one of them.
I feel that neither side was right, but I have to pick it would the guys. As a result they were more sorry then the females. I felt that females were to hard on her condsidering that they were supposed to be her sister's instead they be little her even more whe they should have embraced her with comforting and that sister love.
If you've never experinced what it is to be raped you can't understand her emotions or actions. People can't say, she should have, "I would have done it!" "shes stupid for letting it slide". A woman is in fear, she had no ones support, maybe if she had the support of her sisters she would have had the courage to speak up. Sadly she had no one, and was forced to "erase" that memory from her past.
I think she chooses not to use the word rape because in a type of way she feels responsible for what happend. If she wouldve included it into the article it wouldve had a much stronger feeling towards the readers.Ever since her whole college experience she chooses to isolate herself from female group activites even if it has to do with her children. She feels uncomfortable at the whole situation.
It might have impacted her situation because if she would of treated as a crime than it would definently bring justice and some sort of closure to her because she knows that when its reported as a crime that the sytem does not take it lightly. She could definently help other women in her situation and also prevent it from happening to someone else if she keeps him out as a freeman.
If I had to choose a side I would choose the male side. What happened wasn't Kelly's fault. Like thay said the guy took advantage of her because she was drunk. It wasn't like Kelly knew what was going on. Even though their Frat brother did this they still apologised as a team and the guy apologised himself. Now the sorority sister s made her feel less than a woman.
I don't believe that treating the incident as a crime would have been helpful in healing the pain she experienced as a victim. The reason being that she can not change what happened to her and no matter how they punish him, he will never experience what she went through. Also because the case had to be taken to court and she had to face him constantly on these court dates and that would make her feel worse. Another reason is the fact that the whole school would find out and no matter whose fault it is, she would get looked at differently. This would affect ehr emotionally, physically and mentally.
The difference was that the males that participating in the ledge party eventually apologize.Especially the main guy who slept with her.he recieved punishment and got backballed and later dropped out.As for her "
sisters" then simply said it was her fault when it wasnt.They talked behind her back and even kicked her out of the sorority.
everyone seems to agree with the fact that they believe that the males were more compasionate about what happened..and that they handeled the situation better than her sisters did.
I don't believe treating the incident as a crime would have been helpful in healing tha pain she experinced. It would have been more painful because I believe more people would have gone against her, making the matters worst. Besides that doesn't help, I believe she should have gone to a psychiatrist, because she seems to need some narcotics to calm her anxiety.
I agree with evelyn even though i chose neither group was right in this situation. At least the guys had enough courage to stop what was going. And the main guy even apoligized like i said before that doesnt make it right but her so called sisters didint help her at all in this situation.
It would of impacted her situation deeply because she felt bad that she did what she did. She was irresponsile and felt shameful. For fer to be completly ostracized from the sorority and the campus would make her feel worse. She would loose out on her education and loose all her friends she trust.She would be left with nothing.She would become completly alone.
I think that it wasn't reported because Kelly was intoxicated, however she wasn't forced to go with him, she made a choice of her own but yes, of course she wasn't quite in her right mind and she was basically taken advantage of but she made that wrong choice to go. And to going to the police probably would have made matter worse for her although people did witness the sexual activity just to report to the authority would've been more embrassing.
Kelly blamed herself, for drinking too much, "loosing control". Thats what most rape victims due blame themselves for what they experienced. Perhaps she thought her sisterhood would some how make it go away.
Being the outcast in her sorority and on campus must of been very frustrating for her. She feels as if the spotlite is on her but not in a positive way. The author's self image changed in the wake of this incident because she was exposed all the wrong ways and looked down at. She lost respect from her own sisters. The author was always the responsible one and that night someone cought her offguard.
Both were completely wrong on what occur.However the males was more right than the females because they said sorry.They took action and punish how was involved.they acknowleged,apologized,showed remorse.Thye didn’t blame her,and they shouldnt have.But the women shouldnt have,either,however they did.
Her self image changes because her sisters gossip about here referring to her as dirty. They tell her that she has brought shame upon them. Her sisters should have not laughed at her or made those comments to bring her self esteem down.
They should have helped her get checked out and report the incident as a criminal act.
Kelly didn't report this to anyone because she felt it was partially her fault. She got drunk followed the guy to his room and he reacted.
No I don't think that treating this incident as a crime would've heal any different I just believe that Kelly was looking or more comfort from her soroity sister than anything being more sympathic the situation would have heal her better if she was comfort from them.
Treating the incident as a crime, would have been an injustice to the Fraternity Guy. He did not force Kelly to drink or go with him upstairs, she was fully cooperative until the point where passed out.
The author's self-image was that she was dirty to the sorority. To them she deserved her fate and that she was a shame.She was the drunken slut who had disgraced the sisterhood.
I believe it would have helped heal her pain. At least if it were treated as a crime noone would have been able to treat her like she was a whore. The girls probably felt that she willingly gave it up because she didnt report it. If she would've reported it they would've seen how serious things were.
I believe that the word rape was avoided because the incident was enough. Knowing what occured and having to mention it again it disturbing so another choice of word was used instead. A woman has many fears but being raped has to be by far the worst. Having to write about what occured must have been difficult especially because she felt responsible.
The author avoided using the word "rape" in her essay. I think she avoided it because she didnt get raped. She drunk a little to much and got under the influence. She later followed the guy to his room and passed out. Later, the dude reacted. I honestly dont think its rape because he didnt push her against her will, she FOLLOWED him to the room, so therefore shes guilty. Even if she was under the influence she should of been more cautious about how much liqiour she had consumed.
I agree with Andrea treating this as a crime wouldnt be right becasue he didint force her into anything even though she was drunk she mustve had some type of knowldege about what was happening untill she passed out. Not to say the guy was right but he did apolgize to her so i think that woudve made her more upset.
The author chooses to avoid the word rape because technically she was not forced. When someone is raped, they are forced to have sexual encounters with someone. In her case, she liked this guy. He didn't take her anywhere against her will or forced her to have sexual relations with him. She was under the influence and even though she passed out, she knew she was putting herself in a situation that she can be taken advantage of in her condition.
I think it would of worsen her situation if she were to treat this as a crime. The reason being that the principal would of gotten involved and this would upset the sorority because they would probably have to stop their parties, at least until the investigation was concluded. Also because not that many new students would want to pledge knowing that they can possibly get rape. If these girls hated her then, imagine how much hate they would have towards her if she would of reported this crime. Her imagine would also be affected because people would start looking at her as a "slut" or simply easy and crazy and wild.
The author reason for not reporting the incident to the proper autohrites was that she simply didn’t think of it in that way.Plus the fact the her date apologized to her and his brothers help.Also he got blackballed and by sememster’s end dropped out.I’m assuming she thought that was enough punishment.
Using the term rape may had affect her essay and the reader because its a very disturbing word. No one should have to experience something so brutal. The actual rape has scared enough and using the term will only complicate things and bring images that she may not want to relive. She also makes it so that the reader can just imagine how she felt and how strongly responsible she felt because she had no control over her alcoholic beverages. It's a message to all readers that it is reality and that the things that readers read about due occur and that incidents such as the ones she faced should not be taken lightly or because of fear or attention that it may bring.
i agree with francis and andrea they make a good point that is wasnt rape she was willing to do everything she did do especialy knowing how a guy can get plus the storys her sisters would talk about after they would do things.
The authors self-image changed drasticaly after the rape. She was as she called her self a "good girl" I imagine she respected her body and being a virgin in college makes you feel good, it has some innocence to you because your diffrent from the rest, so you carry a diffrent confidence. After the assualt she became cold, and kept to herself, she mentions she felt dirty many times throughout the article. No longer having her head up and chest out, she no longer had what she felt was special.
I believe the author choses to avoid the word rape because, the word brings some unhealed wounds. It is a way not to accept the fact that it happened, the fact that she was indid raped, in a way she still carrys some denial. I believe just by reading "rape" causes fear and pain, so reading it just like her would be to accept it, it was less harsh , and I didn't really focus on that issue, but on her sisters cold shoulder.
The incident has scarred her from that day forward. She states she tried to burry that part of her life, she thought she had forgotten. But in reality never did. She never did because she still finds fear in groups of woman and had closed herself off to woman in general.
If she would of included herself as a victim of rape, i would diasgree with her essay and her opinion towards the situation. I would beleive then that she is using that term as an excuse to make herself the victim of something she put herself in.
I believe the author's self image change because she was basically left alone to deal with the situation no comforting fromanyone except the apologies from the males, she was consider to be dirty and that this was her own fault.
This incident impactedthe author's life because that experience has teached her not to trust woman. She was betrayed by the people closest to her that she thought she can trust. It has affected her young life, and now that she is a mom she questions herself what can she teach her two daughters about male and females.
I agree with andrea about the man not being persecuted. He did not force the author to have sexual intercourse with him. He was a gentlemen to the end. Even though he should not had takend advantage of her while she was passed out, he showed remorse and apologized to her of his behavior.
I dont think that it would help heal her bceause something like this is something that you would never forget. Others wont forget it either. If it was handled as a crime it would have been more public than what it was.
I believe it wouldnt have made much of a diffrence because what is done is done.But, if it would have help her to heal faster she should have do it.She could have gone to threapy and maybe find a solution to talk with women as much, espcially in groups.
Rape is when someone forces another person to have sexual intercourse with them. I don't think she felt forced because she was incontinent so she does not see it as rape. Also because she wants to deny the fact that this happened to her so she wants to sugarcoat it to make ehrself feel better. I don't think the fact that she didn't use the word "rape" in her essay affected the readers, even though using it would of been the professional thing to do. This incident impacted the author's life by preventing her from joining social clubs such as sports, book clubs, charity circuit, women's fitness classes etc. Also because now she is afraid of trusting females.
I agree with andres about not reporting the situation to the authorities. It would have caused a lot more comotion then what it already was. The sororitys already put her to shame with all the criticzm, going to the police would of made the situation alot worse because more people would of became involved.
Well rape is a very strong word.Plus the the fact that she didnt report it makes it a little odd tot thew average reader.To add, it could bring pain back that she vuried for years because rape is something that a person was force into and didnt want to happen.There a chance that she wanted to have sex with the guy but definetly not under those circumtances that she have to endure.
If Kelly would have reported the incident to the proper authority, she may have labeled as a party with little to no self-control, maybe even that she asked for it. Often these types of parties take place on college campuses everywhere, she would have to expose everything, everyone, risking being called a "snitch". But by Kelly keeping her cool accepting the apology from the Faternity Guys, even the one who assualted her showed strength. Kelly comsumes herself in her school work, goes to Law School and gets married to bury the nightmare of what happened to her in college. She becomes a parent and never talks about the incident to anyone. Hiding deep inside the pain and confusion.
I would have to disagree with Francis. Some guys did try to stop this incident by pulling her away but it was too late. Her sisters did turn their back on her when they were the ones that were suppose to help her.
I believe she chose to avoid the word rape in this situation because I think she knew it was someting that was bound to happen. She was feeling this guy and he was feeling her. It would affect because her she got drunk she didn't realize how drunk she was and she followed this guy to his room.
When we hear the word RAPE we immediately convict the alleged. Because Kelly willing drank and willing went upstairs with this young man, i guess she choose not to call it rape, however once she was passed out, the young man totally took full advantage of her and her innocence. Rape is rape there's no sweet way to put it.
I agree with everryone who said Kelly wasn't taken advantage of. She wasn't forced to do anything but she was intoxicated. If she felt it was rape she would have reporeted it to the police.
I believe that the author choose to avoid the word rape because she basically know that it's part of her fault going willing with someone and not stopping your action is not consider to be rape.
I will feel that her essay would have been false becuase he did not rape her, the word rape is a very harsh word the thought of someone who has been raped is an unhealing thought. The fact the author knew she had to much to drink was know way she could say it was rape, and it would only question her actions as well.
Yes, becuase she has really not gotten over the whole college incident. I believe it has impacted her life because she at apoint where she's raise 3 daughter of her own and hoping that she makes the right choice on the decision she makes for her daughter future.
I like what Andres said. Being in a sisterhood means that when one is down your sisters should be there to console you and they weren't there. The guys were ther for her more than her own sisters.
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